Louisiana
passed a "trigger law" that will criminalize abortion if and when the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade. Funny how no one on the right REALLY believed the protestations of Alito and Roberts that they still hadn't made their minds up about abortion. As soon as the Dems bought into that fiction and confirmed them, wacko states began criminalizing abortion left and right.
As everyone knows, criminalizing abortion won't prevent abortion any more than, perhaps even less than, criminalizing speeding or using pot or hiring prostitutes has eliminated those practices. Abortion used to be criminalized in America and there were still abortions. (In fact, some of the earliest recorded uses for various herbs were for abortiofactents. Abortion has been around almost as long as sex has been around and is a humane alternative to exposure. People are wired to have sex and sex sometimes results in unwanted pregnancy. You can no more change that than you can change the fact that people are wired to eat, breathe, and eliminate.) So what IS the point to criminalizing it?
In theory, and it's mostly theory, AFAICT, criminalizing something, say robbing banks, allows us to lock up those inclined to rob banks, thereby making the world safe for banks. There's another theory, that, AFAICT, doesn't have much factual support that by criminalizing bank robbing we can punish bank robbers, thereby discouraging erstwhile bank robbers. Maybe. Maybe not. But are we really going to put mothers in the electric chair when they "murder" their fetus so that they can support the other children they already have? Throw them in jail and give their children to good upstanding xians to raise? I guarandamntee you we won't be executing or jailing white male doctors who perform abortions. So there's no "deterrent" effect to be had.
No. What criminalizing abortion will do is result in death. Death by back-alley abortion. And, here's a clue: not only does back-alley abortion often kill or maim the woman -- which is what the fundie xians want; they desperately want to punish women for being sexual beings -- but it usually kills or maims the fetus, as well. Culture of life, my ass. It also creates, in the same way that drug laws have created, a criminal class of people willing to charge a lot of money to help people get something illegal that they want or need. Let's face it, we could start selling pot in drugstores and gas stations tomorrow and all that would happen is pushers wouldn't get to charge so much for it. Ditto abortion.
We all know that we could reduce the number of abortions in this country if someone thought that were a worthwhile goal. There are a number of factors associated with low abortion rates: education for girls; free, safe, effective, and accessible birth control, real sex education, and, interestingly, liberal abortion laws. But the fundies who are hell-bound to criminalize abortion hate all those things, as well.
Well, women and fetuses are going to die in back-alley abortions in Louisiana. You know, I'd have imagined that Louisiana had better things to do with its legislative time and with its dollars (you think that defending this nonsense won't cost the State money? It will. So will enforcing it. So will dealing with the women who are "only" maimed for life.) than this. Something about levees, maybe.
37 comments:
But what's the point of reducing *demand* for abortions? How is that going to keep women in their place? Good Lord, it might even empower them, and that would totally suck.
I have the "Our Bodies, Ourselves" that reprinted the photo of the woman dead from a self-induced abortion. Beyond sad. I wasn't quite old enough to vote when the ERA was defeated, but I told everyone that it wasn't about tampon machines next to urinals, but it was about economic equality and about personal equality. We have regressed so far in 25 years.
I am from Louisiana and I DO remember people getting abortions. Not even back alley though. I remember them using clothes hangers. I was 12 years old when I was in my junior high bathroom and I saw a pool of blood coming from the stall next to mine. It turns out the young woman of approximately 15 years of age had used a coat hanger to try to do her own abortion. I never heard anything else about her again. I don't know if she died or ended up in the hospital. She just mysteriously disappeared. This was in 1962. People who are against abortion are insane. Why Why Why would you tell anyone else what to do????? When most of those individuals who are suggesting that abortion be outlawed have just as many dysfunctional issues as everyone else. Oh by the way this was a young caucasian woman who was middle class. Not a minority lower or an upper class person. So think twice about outlawing abortions that could be your child or grandchild or sister or cousin in that same situation. WOuld she live or die? Lavandermoon
I am totally against abortion. There are ways to prevent it. how about using a condom and taking birth control. Don't stop a beating heart just because the parents are careless.
abortion is murder! If you dont want to be pregnant there is a sure way to keep it from happening.
Im am only 12 years old and i think abortion is so STUPID!!!!
Why kill an unborn baby just because you didnt wrap it up. I have a 4 year old cousin and a 4 month old nephew and if their parents had abortion i would never talk to tell again.So therefor:
IF YOU DONT WANT TO WRAP IT UP , DONT UNWRAP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im am only 12 years old and i think abortion is so STUPID!!!!
Why kill an unborn baby just because you didnt wrap it up. I have a 4 year old cousin and a 4 month old nephew and if their parents had abortion i would never talk to them again.So therefor:
IF YOU DONT WANT TO WRAP IT UP , DONT UNWRAP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Abortion is the stupidest thing created by man, if you dont want to be pregnant dont have sex or get ur own protection dont rely on the man. it really isn't the choice of the girl, thaz a human life ur killing, if it's able to grow from the moment it was made then it's definetly a living thing no matter how old it is,my aunt got pregnant and she was goin to get an abortion, thank God my dad found out and stopped her, because then i wouldnt have my lil cousin. yes my dad which is her brother was furious at her that they didn't speak for a while, he still supported her and if ur family really loves u then they support you, and there is so many support groups out there, so there's no excuse u can give. i understand that faced with that situation u feel u have no other choice and how terrifying and how it feels that ur life has ended but there are options, there are people u can turn to u just have to be willing to look.
Ok abortions in some situations is wrong. but what about thoes girls that can't afford to have a baby or is on some type of drug to keep them alive that will harm the baby. And ya that one person said are family support my aunt and we are always there for her. You know what not every family is like that only the lucky ones get that. So pleace think what you are going to say before you say it. So all the people that are saying abortions are bad and disgueting and want to make it illegal. So all you people that are saying this is don't kill a life just let them suffer. Well thoes words don't come out of your mouth. But thats pertty much what you are saying in some situations. So instead of aborting when they are under 3 months old when they most likly won't beable to feel pain and not fully devleoped. You want these babys or kids to suffer or even die when they can feel pain and they can remember things. So all thoes people that think abortion is all together wrong. There not thinking anout the women that afford to keep after a child how many 15 year old or older cna afford a baby. And who ever writes back and say wrap it up then or take birth control or stop having sex. Having human nature you will never stop it and birth control and condoms don't always work, or there is some health problom involed.
why would you want to kill a human because you or your partner didnt wrap it up
okay, abortion is murder! I found out I was pregnant at 6 weeks, and I heard the heart beat at 8. I saw that she had arms buds and leg buds, thats a living thing!! If you don't think your responsible to take care of a result to a choice you made, then you are not responable to be making those choices. Imagine if your mother did what you did, you would not be here, she would of took your life away, just like your taking your unborn childs life away.
And to the person who said that they can't afford a baby, well you shouldnt be having sex in the first place! and if you are, be smart and use protection!
I was 17 years old when I had my baby girl, I had no money but I made it through, with out help from the government or any of that stuff, I was not smart by having sex at that age, but now im so happy cause i have a wonderful little girl in my life that makes life so much better! These are your kids, you made them, why do you want to kill them??
I hate ignorance.. someone wrote it isn't the woman's choice?? WHAT? then whose is it? It's the woman's choice. A man isn't forced into changing his entire life. People wear condoms and use protection and they say it works 99% of the time.. but 1% out of a million people is a whole lot of mistakes. If you're not ready, you can't do it for medical or personal reasons then you CHOOSE whether or not you are keeping it. Your body, mistakes happen, your choice. Don't take away the only option so many of these girls and women have.
like other people said before abortion isnt a choice,having SEX is the choice you make its not like you dont know the consequences of it!if you choose to have SEX you know that you could get pregnant or some kind of disease so why take that risk???
would you murder somebody....i dont think so!so why do it to an INNOCENT child,YOUR innocent child that had nothing to do with YOUR MISTAKE?!you might say that its not murder because it cant feel or remember stuff..but its not like YOU can remember being in your mothers stomach but your alive now arent you?!?! sADMIT IT PEOPLE YOU WONT UNDERSTAND ANY OF IT UNLESS YOU GO TROUGH IT YOURSELF AND IF YOU STILL DONT CHANGE YOUR MIND THEN YOU HAVE NO HEART!!
Hello, I used to be totally against abortion. I used to think that in no way shape or form should anyone get an abortion. I am adopted and I very well could have been aborted myself. Then I grew up and realized that there are many, many reasons that abortion should be considered. How about in third world areas where a terribly poor family already has 5 or 6 kids and religion or a husband's wishes prevent or restrict it. Would it be fair to bring another child into a situation where there is already no food to feed the rumbling tummies of the children already present? No it wouldn't. The woman should be able to go and abort in privacy without fear of repercussion. How about in the cases of incest? A father, brother, whomever, rapes a daughter and that girl conceives. Is it right to tell that girl that 'we're sorry, but not only were you defiled by someone you were supposed to trust, now you have to suffer through a pregnancy you never wanted or should have had and go through a delivery that will allow the spawn of a raping, molesting, incestuous man to be adopted by a loving family' Whatever! There are reasons to have an abortion. I do NOT think that teens or even adults should use an abortion as a form of birth control just because they feel like it. There are condoms to be given out FREE by the billions and BCP's for free at any health clinic. There are also hundreds and hundreds of families who want to adopt.Abortion is not meant to be used by stupid kids who 'just don't like how a rubber feels and we'll just pull out'. That is stupidity and actually, thinking about it, maybe taking that particular spawn out of the gene pool would be ok. God only knows we have enough idiots and fools in the world as it is. There are many situations where abortion is indicated, and there are also many where it is not. It is and always should be, a choice.
i had a baby when i was 15. in fact, today (july 9, 2008) is his 12th birthday. i was not ready to take care of a baby at that age. however it was me and my boyfriend who made the stupid choice in the first place to have sex. so why should an innocent life suffer because of a stupid decision we made? he shouldn't have to. i gave my baby up for adoption and he's in a loving, caring home. abortion should not be an option because it's a cop-out. adoption (or keeping the child) is always an option. no one is going to turn down a baby at an adoption agency. it costs nothing. the agency pays for everything. i used the gladney center in texas http://www.adoptionsbygladney.com/. but there are many places you could go. if adoption becomes illegal, yes, some women will still do it, and yes they may end up maimed. but that's a risk they should take. if they are going to kill the baby regardless, they may as well have something to remind them of the horrible thing they did.
I dont care what excuse you make up, abortions are wrong. There are tons of people in the world dying for a child, who cant have one. If you dont want the child, give it up for adoption. There are even clinics where you can drop your baby off and leave, no paperwork required. There is always someone out there who would love to raise your child. Abortion is MURDER, and it is time that people start realizing it.
Not only do i think abortion is wrong, but GOD said its wrong. And who is a better judge than God?? Yes, abortion is murder, so dont try to justify it. Good luck making it to heaven with the murder of an innocent child under your belt.
Fuck all of you that are so against abortion!!! Yes it might be a mistake not using condoms, birth control or whatever but mistakes do happen. Guys make "mistakes" too but i don't see them forced to carry another human beeing inside there boddys for for 9 mounths .To be condamned or worse suported by parents that will remind them every day about the mistake they made, lose their freedom, youth even life because of that mistake. Well a child is concived also by the sperm of a men, in conseqence if abortions are too be illegal then it should also be illegal sleeping with a woman without protection if you impreganant her.How stupid is that!And for those who are saying that women should stop makeing sex if they don't want to give birth are incredibble idiots!!!!! I don't know what kind of freeaks or frustrated people are they but if i were to live in a world where sex is considered to be just o form of makeing babys i would kill myself.Conciveing is a thing given by nature to us women and as long as we still do so, it's our problem if we want to keep or abort a child.I'm not saying that abortion is great, moral, right etc.I'm just saying that a woman should deicide over her own body.And I think that's moral enough.
Abortion is a very sticky issue among everyone in the world. But really when you think about it it is nobody's choice but the mothers. There are people who have children and don't want to, and more often then not the child isn't given the proper attention and care. The child will grow up will insecurities and issues. How i see it is everything happens for a reason. If the fetus was aborted, then it wasn't meant to be in the first place.
I am a 19 year old virgin and I support abortion.
I never, ever, ever want to carry a child. And though I am a virgin, that doesn't mean I won't eventually have sex.
There seem to be a lot of posters on here that are chalking up the incident of pregnancy to being the woman's fault. Firstly, that is bollocks. In every single occasion, it is 50-50. The woman is not singularly responsible, and nor is the man. The very reason that so many pro-life supporters use the point 'the fetus has different genetic information than the mother' is because the man is 50% responsible for that fetus' creation.
Secondly; accidents do happen. Humans, (for those Christians who have posted, you should know) are programmed to make mistakes, fall short, and continue in their lines of sin. For those who damned women who have had abortions; the Bible also teaches forgiveness for repentance. Many women who do have abortions undergo serious emotional repercussions. And they do regret it. And even if they don't, does the Bible not also say that God knows your fate before you were even conceived? And that we are 'created equal', so why should it be only the woman's fault and responsibility? I am well-versed in these things; I attended a Christian private school for six years, until I was 18 years old. My over-all point in this is; you can paraphrase the Bible any way you want to make a point to make others feel guilty - especially when it comes to matters of ethics. It happens all the time. My mother often told me many points in it are "up for interpretation and discussion".
And if you want to talk about ethics; what about rape? Yes - it does happen. How about we discuss turning a blind eye on that? And what about the fact that it doesn't even matter that people want to adopt "any child", a mother being forced to carry the seed of a man who defiled her for nine months only to give it away is a severe punishment in my eyes. Or even keep it. I know that I personally would rather die.
And in the case of young teens who are not supported by anyone, not even their families, what are they to do? Their whole lives are stolen from them in the blink of an eye in something in which they may have had little to no control over, and certainly only partial.
I feel it is in my best interest to defend myself and my already-established existence and unavoidable sexuality as a human being of the female form on such a matter. Anything else is pure guilt.
hi um i just skimmed this little convo and i think it is blatantly obvious thatabortion is wrong. so yeah ok men are partially responsible.........and...that is a pathetic cop out. in most cases he didn't make you do it he asked or pressured you and you caved yes if he was a real man he would stick around and care for his kid but gues what lets say he doesn't stick around you are still the childs parent at 1 week or 10. You as females need to realize that even if it was a mistake you need to deal with it....mistakes happen and when they do you still have to deall with them and for christians out there the bible doesnt say thou shalt not kill unless it's a mistake or if the damn rubber popped it says do not kill period thats it plain and simple. and for those non christians out there just hear me out. I know some of you may be bitter about the abortion you have had and feel a great need to ack it up and advocate it as a sensible choice but you know that it was wrong and the feeling you had while they were killing your child is the true emotion behind your fasod. yes it's your boy to do with as you pleas but what about the babies who speaks for them who advocates their wishes and feelings......no one thats who. and for women who have been raped yes that baby too still deserves a life. it didn't ask to be the product of an incestous relationship just like you didn't so if any one should be seen a sthe victim it should be that baby who has to live without a father or a mother who resents it's very being. but the key word in that statement was LIVE.and it's amazing that according to our government we have the right to Life antittled to us by the constitution but we legally kill millions because we made a damn mistake.
I never thought I would have an abortion, but I did. I am glad we have abortion clinics. When I became pregnant, the father of my child made threats and even acted on them. He called the campus police and claimed I had a hand-gun in my dorm room during finals week. He did all sorts of things against me. There are just me out there that will behave as if they are good men and fool women. Those men do not give up their rights of the baby, sothe woman does not even have the option of adoption. Those men do not want to be Dads and take responsibility, but they do not want anyone outside their family to raise their child. Those men are the type that when they have children they give them to their "Mommy" to raise, therefore they can still be a part-time Dad whenever they decide to take that job that day. A LOT OF MEN ARE CHILDREN!! THEY ARE NOT EVEN MEN!! Be warned because the most alarming thing about my story is that my boyfriend was a sweet guy UNTIL I became pregnant. As I said, I never thought I would have an abortion but I am very grateful I did. If I could give up my child to adoption then I would have, but my boyfriend said once I signed my rights he will give the baby to his Mom. My child would listen to a man that would call me names and my family names. I come from a good family and made a mistake of having sex with a man that I loved and he obvious did not love me. PEOPLE YO HAVE NO IDEA THE SCUM THAT ARE MEN OUT THERE. Instead of fighting over abortion...why not fight to make laws that protect pregnant women and allows unwed mothers place their babies for adoption WITHOUT the father's signing off his rights. I have meet a lot of women that would have their baby if the fathers were not involved. If the man is not willing to stand beside the woman they got pregnant...then he should not have ANY rights to the child. Look at all the bad fathers out there...do we really want to give these slime balls the roles as "dad." STOP BLAMING THE WOMEN...START BLAMING THE MEN. THE WOMEN ARE VICTIMS!!!!
you ass how dumb can you be your not a damn victim you said yourself that you had sex with him because you loved him your not a victim you made a bad choice, and there are laws to protect you, restraining orders, anti stalking laws, and a bunch of other crap so no your not a vitim the baby was
and furthermre i know men tht have taken the baby from the unfit mother and raised them alone while working fulltime with no help.alot of women are hores and alot of men are assholes that's the world for ya come with a legitimate argument before you post omething
ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT SAY THAT ABORTION IS RIGHT WELLL I HAVE SOMETHING TO TELL YOU I THINK THAT YOU PEOPLE AND IMORAL AND YOU DONT THINK ABOUT OTHER ONES BUT YOURSELF
This has nothing to do with women being equal, this is all about privilege. If a man wants to keep the kid, he has no legal say, she can still abort, if he wants to abort, he has no legal say, she can keep it and legally force him to pay child support. As the law sands now men have NO reproductive rights, feminists took them all away so woman have total legal authority over men's reproduction. Having said that, cut the crap about women's rights, You want privilege not equality. A woman has many options, she can put it up for adoption, where it can get a home. you think 9 months of pregnancy is too much responsibility? Guys join the military at a young age all the time, and the have to pay the consequences when they go to war, regardless if it gets in the way of school or whatever, and many lose arms legs and there lives, and 95% are men, not women. So don't act like having to carry a baby around is some kind of unreal task for a young woman. Abortion is only thinkable in the mind of a woman who lacks basic maternal instincts, she is like a maternal crocodile.
I am 21 years old and i just found out my 17 year old sister had an abortion. I didn't know much about them or the process until i decided to do some research on the web. I am truly devastated !!!! I say if shes big enough to get her self in the situation, shes big enough to deal with it ! She knew what she was doing when she did it and the consequences ! I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ABORTIONS, they are against my religion as well as my personal opinion !! I bet if u couldn't get an abortion, you would have alot more responcible people b/c they wouldnt have a way out ! Teenagers and people in general these day's know they have abortion to turn to ! Wow ! This is my first time to speak my mind about this !!
All you people ranting about how stupid abortion is have both a correct and in incorrect view.
Yes, absitinence and contraception are legitimate deterents but what you don't take into account is RAPE and INCEST.
Forcing a woman to carry to term a pregnancy that is the result of such a horrible and vulgar assault is tantamount to making the woman an ongoing victim of the crime for nine more months and PUNISHING HER for beng raped.
What you fail to perceive is that the "Pro-Life" movement seeks to make ALL abortion, short of a lifethreatening pregnancy, illegal.
There for, the victim is punished for being the victim.
That is a horrible premise to support.
Abortion is still legal because of people like you. Who think "if you criminalize abortion, it won't stop people...". And your right, it won't stop people. But it will deter people. There was a case last year that a 17 year old girl died from a botched abortion done by a hack in a dark alleyway. Because she needed her parents consent to abort her unwelcome child. I can't say that she deserved to die, but if she didn't, then she doesn't deserve to ever have children again. People are using abortion as birth control. Which is why it's not illegal. Because it's in demand. Which is beyond sad and monstrous. If people are having sex and "oops, the condom broke", and the morning after pill didn't work and they do end up pregnant, then they have to take responsibility for that. And responsibility is not aborting your child. If you can not care for your child then there are binders full of a parent or parents looking to adopt. I know some woman who have said that it would be to hard to carry your child and then give him or her away, but is killing your child something smaller that you can live with????
I only believe in abortion in cases of incest and child deformities, and disabilities. I know I did not include rape into this. The reason for that is: More then 50% of woman who get raped, put themselves in that position. I know how horrible this is to say but facts are facts. Woman who walk down a dark alley at 2:00 in the morning drunk or high, wearing a mini skirt and tank top, might as well wear a big sign that says "open for business". The other unfortunate woman who get raped uncalled for and become pregnant from this should have something to look forward to. Such as a blessing.
Abortion is child sacrifice in a literal sense, It's putting your self as a god and deeming that your own selfish desires justify ending human life. It is no different than ritual child sacrifice to ancient gods, except this time we have made the idols ourselves. There is just no reason to use abortion instead of birth control unless a person really values their comfort more than another human's life.
As a scientist, I need to point out that A fetus can react to light in the womb as early as 10 weeks. We criminalize killing animals less conscious than that.
I have to say that standing up for animal rights and supporting abortion after 10 weeks at the same time, is a contradiction of logic with mutually exclusive ideas. If we are to protect animals because our humanity makes us aware of their suffering, and intentionally ending life and causing life to suffer is wrong... then how can we justify it for our own species.
I'm a left leaning moderate and I'm a scientist, but I just cant fathom abortion's popularity. I observed one once for medical procedures and it made me ashamed, it made me want to cry. A normal human can't sit there and watch this and not be moved. Just get a condom, there is no reason to do this to other humans.=
abortion is a horrible thing to do to babies who have the right to live a life instead os being dead!!!
abortion is a horrible thing to do to babies who have the right to live a life instead os being dead!!!
First of all, I hope that anyone who chooses to leave a response without decent grammar realizes that they probably don't have much to say anyway. Secondly, all of you who refer to abortion as "MURDER" should do some case checking. I understand the arguments about a living being having a "soul" etc., and that's fine if you're into the whole religion thing. However, I don't think you can really refer to it as more than a mass of tissue. No matter how developed the bodies look, they mean nothing if there's no more than chemical reactions occurring. All those things we "remember" from the womb are just chemical reactions of partially formed brains that get stored. Anyone with a bit of sense realizes that are bodies are just wads of muscle, bone and fat with no real value whatsoever unless something is done with them. Once we begin thinking we become "human", not before then. As anyone who has a child, most of their cognitive understanding and connecting only begin to occur at least a month AFTER leaving the womb.
I would like to say though, that I am not arguing for abortion. I think most people should incur some sense of responsibility for their actions, but no one has the right to tell another person what to do unless it infringes on THEIR rights. No, sorry, in this country, belief is not one of them. Oh, and for all you schmucks who think that saying "you could have been aborted" is a reason to not abort, please use your brains for at least five minutes at a time. Sure, I could have been aborted, but I could also have never been conceived, so it's a really stupid argument. You could also die tomorrow, is that a reason to get drunk as hell today? Oh yeah, and Eli, you're an idiot, and as a digression from my former progressive comment, mice, swallows, crocodiles all have beating hearts too, and they do more good for the world than a baby... what about saving them?
kittyG84, if you think a woman ever "puts" herself in the position to be raped, then, oh, I don't know, walk up a dark alley high and drunk, with an open bosom and high skirt. DO you honestly believe that women usually are in that position? All three at once? Shouldn't it be our right to be able to walk up a dark alleyway safely? Is it not the rapist who is in the wrong? I mean, how is that even rationally possible? The woman is not the perpetrator. She is the victim. Urgh! People like you just make me want to bang my head against a wall! Don't you see? Most of the woman are not raped because they are so open... they're actually some of the lesser known to be raped. No. It's the vulnerable ones. You know, the mild mannered ones, usually modest but thought to cause little trouble.
Where do you get your facts?
YA aabortion Is so Wrong it is so sad if you look at pictures of babies aborted they are so tiny and its soooooooooo saaaaaaaadddddddddd
i can see the point that most people are talking about killing a human life but honestly who can tell me that they remember any pain or memories of when they were a few months old or even in the womb....nobody can..i also think that in some cases it is right to abort a child for the following reasons a). a woman may be brutally raped..may have contracted hiv and become pregnant..and yes its not the childs fault how it is concieved but for the mother can you imagine how hard it would be for her to raise a child with such horrible memories attached to it and also there is higher risks when giving birth for a woman with hiv ..b). the woman may be a drug addict..which in some cases leads to defects in the babies...such as dwarfism etc .who would want to bring such a perfect child into a world of suffering from the very beginning? ...i think that some people have personalised themselves with the topic of abortion saying its a mortal sin and murder...but at the end of the day (and i myself adore babies..and recently became a godmother) at less than four months it is only a foetus ...a foetal life..not a human life..it isnt that developed..it doesnt feel pain being aborted because it doesnt breath oxygen...i dont agree with abortion in some cases..but i do think it should be legalised for special cases...and also it is up to the mother and what she thinks is best for her child and body and she may decide whatever she may wish..without people attacking her with abuse for "murder" if you think about it your asking for the rights of the baby to be protected but dont care about how the mother feels....and without mothers we would have no babies...so just think about that before you decide to write back to me with "mortal sin" and "murder" and think of both sides of the story before you start taking the moral high ground...thanks
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